(National-MSNBC) April 21, 2005 - The MSNBC interview with anchor Randy Meier began with a segment WIS aired from Rep. John Graham Altman's comments to Kara Gormley two-days-ago, "I mean you women want it one way and not another. Women want to punish the men, and I do not understand why women continue to go back around men who abuse them."

Rand Meier: The house speaker called those comments inappropriate. Joining me now to talk about this is Representative John Altman. Representative Altman, thanks for being here.

Rep. Altman: Good morning, how are you?

MSNBC: I want to get to the substance.

JGA: Glad to be with you. First of all, how do you juxtapose the...

MSNBC: Let me just...

[Talking over each other]

MSNBC: You can figure how we'll go with this. Let me start, I want to get to the substance of the two bills. But first, I want to ask you based on the sound we just saw, does that accurately reflect how you feel about these two bills?

JGA: No. Well, you keep putting the two bills together. That's wrong and you ought to know that. We took up about 10-15-20 bills in Judiciary Committee. We're divided half Republican and Democrat and unanimously we passed the anti-gamecock fighting bill and sent the other back to committee. There's no connection between the two.

MSNBC: I know they aren't connected in law.

JGA: Why did you connect them?

MSNBC: Because it raises a stark contrast between two very different issues in your state, sir, and people are asking questions. The question they are asking is, is there something wrong with the domestic abuse bill that you would send it back to committe? You unanimously rejected that one as well.

JGA: That's true.

MSNBC: How does cockfighting become more important than passing a bill on domestic abuse from women. That's the explanation they want from you.

JGA: May I now answer?

MSNBC: You will.

JGA: Thank you very much. The bill was a bad bill on the domestic abuse. You got to realize, you're talking to South Carolina here. We're a conservative legislature, Bible belt. We love to pass laws, we love to pass criminal laws. Sometimes I think we pass more criminal laws than some state have trees. We're tough on domestic violence. We've got great laws in the state on that. When it comes to cockfighting, which I think is a stain on our soul here in the state, we needed to make it a felony because only felonies have accessories. You can't have accessories to misdemeanors. We can go out there, catch the police, sheriff catch a cockfighting thing, we can nail everybody involved. Do you understand that? On the same hand, from CDV, criminal domestic violence, you never have an accessory, so...

MSNBC: I think what the people of your state want to understand, we want to give you some credit here on this issue of domestic violence is that there's more work to be done on that bill before you approve it or say it's a good bill, is that correct and fair?

JGA: That's absolutely correct, but we've looked and looked, this bill doesn't close any loopholes. We don't have loopholes in our criminal statutes, they are pretty severe. This is just driven by interest groups who like to cause trouble and put the liberal standard down the line. No one ever points out where we have a loophole in our domestic violence laws or in our assault and battery laws. We've got the tightest laws in the country, I believe.

MSNBC: Well, the question then becomes, and I know you have to understand that no one is comparing these two bills as one single act of legislation, but what happens and what stands out in stark contrast in a case like this represented is that you now have tougher laws on the books in South Carolina for cockfighting than you do for domestic violence and it raises the question, will you do more on the domestic violence bill to make it appropriately tough in your state? And that's the question your people are asking.

JGA: We do not have tougher laws against cockfighting than we do against domestic violence.

MSNBC: Is cockfighting not a felony in South Carolina?

JGA: No. Not yet.

MSNBC: Will it be a felony in South Carolina if it passes?

JGA: I hope so.

MSNBC: Is domestic abuse in South Carolina considered a felony under this legislation?

JGA: No sir.

MSNBC: No, that's the issue.

JGA: What's the difference - Sir, you got to listen. What is, what's the difference between a felony and a misdemeanor in your mind?

MSNBC: It will be the amount of time someone can spend behind bars, that's the basic...

JGA: Absolutely not. Untrue. You're absolutely incorrect.

MSNBC: In most cases it is.

JGA: I don't want to go again, but you folks got to do your homework a little better. In South Carolina for misdeamnors you can serve 10, 15, 20 years in jail. Sometimes upon conviction of a felony you get probation. You're off on the wrong hunt - I hate to do this, but you know what, got to do the background work.

MSNBC: Before we close, we will give you an opportunity to explain the situation one final time to voters in you state. And that is, is there more that's going be done on domestic violence in the state of South Carolina, because clearly people are upset by this. Is there more going to be done rest assured so it isn't going to die on the vine right now?

JGA: We'll do whatever we have to do, but we've got very good laws now against criminal domestic violence. If someone comes to me with an improvement, we'll pass it, but you just - you don't understand the difference.

MSNBC: I think I do. I think you don't understand why people are upset. South Carolina representatives...

JGA: I do because they're misled and a lot of times they're being misled by people like you.

MSNBC: You know what, I still think, and based on this interview, I think people who watch it will still be asking various questions about why it is one way for cockfighting and why it's another way for domestic violence. That's something that you're going to have to explain to them.

JGA: I just explained the difference between having accessories to felonies and not misdemeanors. Did that.

MSNBC: Absolutely. I don't live in your state sir. You need to explain it to the people there. They're the ones asking the questions.

JGA: We have. Well, we have organized resistance here and everybody's got a right to that.

MSNBC: We appreciate you coming. State Representative Altman.

To clarify: the penalties involved in the two pieces of legislation being discussed, if the cockfighting bill passes, it would create a penalty of five years in prison. Currently, a third offense violation of the criminal domestic violence law gets a mandatory 90 days in jail.

As of now, for misdemeanor cases, when someone offends once, twice, or three times, it's punishable by a maximum of three years, but there is also a felony statute on the books.

A new bill which took effect in January 2004 makes criminal domestic violence of a "high and aggravated nature" a felony. That means the attack must involve a deadly weapon, result in serious bodily harm, or cause a person to fear serious bodily harm or death.

The felony offense carries a maximum ten year sentence, that means the offender could serve anywhere from one day up to ten years. It's also important to note the judge could suspend part or all of that sentence if the perpetrator completes a batterer intervention program.

WIS talked with Nancy Barton of Sistercare who worked with a lot of domestic violence victims. She tells us offenders often plead down and are rarely charged with felony criminal domestic violence.

Just after the interview went off the air, we caught what Rep. Altman said while the cameras were still rolling, "I thought network news would be smarter than that little girl in Columbia."

South Carolina's leader is responding to the comments in the original interview. Gov. Sanford spoke Thursday about Altman's comments and the tabling of the domestic violence bill, "To put the life of a chicken ahead of the life of a woman. That just doesn't make any common sense. And to be insensitive about, certainly there are nuances in any piece of legislation, but to be insensitive about, the importance, the gravity of that issue, I think causes people to have doubts about the legislative process in South Carolina, about certain legislators. There is a strong visceral reaction from a lot of you know women and men across South Carolina right now saying this is crazy. This isn't the kind of thing we want out of South Carolina. I have no doubt Comedy Central will pick up this kind of take and say this can't be real. So, yes. Has there been a history, yes. But does that excuse the behavior, I don't think so."

MSNBC anchor Keith Oberman also put in a comment about Altman, saying "Well, it's an original form of media relations."

Reported by Judi Gatson

Updated 4:45pm by BrettWitt